Automatic Litterbox Central

by **jfulcher** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:53 pm

On January 8th I placed an order for 2 Permascoop litter trays and 2 of those PermAlarms. EIGHT DAYS LATER on 1/17 they email me to tell me some sob story about petroleum causing shortages in the ABS Plastic market. What's amusing about this is when I ordered they supposedly had 30+ of the trays IN STOCK. HOW IS A SHORTAGE IN THE PLASTIC MARKET EFFECTING YOUR CURRENT STOCK!?!? They offered me a whopping $10 gift certificate for their short comings. I promptly emailed them back stating how unacceptable this was and that they needed to upgrade my shipping from Ground to 3-day to compensate so I would at least get the boxes a little quicker. They chose to ignore my email.

They FINALLY shipped just the 2 Permascoop trays on 1/18. The shipment notification of course mentions nothing about the PermAlarms, yet they don't mention those at all in the email and the shipment only states 8lbs versus the 14lbs they charged me for during the shipping process. They won't reply to my emails at all. So they either don't have those in stock either or they are ripping people charging for 14lbs of shipping when it's only 8lbs!

If I don't get some reply from them by the time the box gets here on Friday I will be rejecting the shipment and let UPS return it free and disputing the charge with Paypal and Amex. The customer service from this company is HORRIBLE! Just a warning for future customers out there!

Sorry to vent here, but I want others to know about the frustrations of dealing with this company!

Sorry you are having trouble. I have emailed them 3 times and received zero replies.

I have never used this product or even seen it. I am happy with the Forever Tray and 100% confident that it is safe. Breathing in the cloud of dust from the bag of litter is doing more harm than anything this tray can do, IMO. However....

I did some checking on this so called company.
1. None of the product names are really trademarked, so that is a lie on their part.
2. I Cant find any record of a corporation named PermaScoop, in Washington state where they are located, in Canada where the supposed parent company is located, or in Delaware, where any clown and his horse can incorporate. I don't believe they are incorporated at all. Another lie.
3. That picture of the cat on their website, is not their picture....I have seen it around the net for a long time. I doubt the got the permission of the owner to use it. Another lie.
4 The whole thing about the toxicity of the PVC used in 'other' trays (read: The Forever Tray) is old and incorrect information. Jack and Stan's Dad has researched this issue thoroughly and has posted current information on this product, and assures everyone it is safe. We all come in contact with it everyday. The information on the PermaScoop website is not true and is being used to directly discredit the Forever Tray. More lies. Why are they lying? I hate that.

These may seem like unimportant facts, but I don't think so. I prefer to deal with companies that are honest and straight forward, not ones that stretch the truth to the point of untruthful BS. The fact that they wont even answer email is totally off putting to me. How do they communicate with their 'customers'? And what's the deal with inflated shipping charges? I think the whole outfit is suspect and probably won't be around very long. They are orchestrating their own downfall by their actions, or lack of. And to send someone here, posing as as happy customer, (not you, jfulcher) to hype their product while slamming another, is just sleazy.

by **CatWomanStyle** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:09 am

I wouldn't be surprised if ScoopFree came down on them and put them out of biz. I bet Jack and Stan's Dad are next.

by **Jack 'n Stans Dad** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 am

CatWomanStyle wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if ScoopFree came down on them and put them out of biz. I bet Jack and Stan's Dad are next.

It's going to be interesting, to say the least. The whole situation is undoubtedly more complicated than it seems at first glance. For instance, check this out -- it's a cut-and-paste from the bottom of PermaScoop's home page:

PermaScoop is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC

That means one of a few things -- one possibility being that PermaScoop is a cover company for Lucky Litter LLC, which explains their tactics. The second option is that they (PS) are trying to decieve folks into thinking just that. See what I mean? I guess we'll learn the truth one of these days.

The other thing to take into consideration is that the tray is essentially a rectangular box -- not rocket science. I think any judge in a patent infringement suit would most likely simply throw the case out, on the grounds that a box doesn't qualify as unique intellectual property.

In any case, this is turning out to be quite a soap opera over................cat poop trays!

Sometimes we all just need a little reality check and have to have a good laugh over it all............

by **abbeytoo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:41 am

CatWomanStyle wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if ScoopFree came down on them and put them out of biz. I bet Jack and Stan's Dad are next.

They already tried to bully Jack and Stan's Dad! They had the gall to demand royalties from him! LMAO! :lol:

I think Scoop Free is going to be busy for a while, defending themselves against the patent infringement suit filed against them by the Littermaid people! Littermaid is after a few different companies for infringement. I don't see how they would stand a chance in hell of winning, but, and its a big one, they brought suit in Marshall Texas, which happens to be the patent infringement lawsuit capital of the world! The majority of cases are won by the plaintiff! Teensy little town that packs a big punch.

If you mention Marshall Texas to any company over in the Pacific Rim (aka Knock Off Land) they know exactly what you are talking about!

JEFF: any comments about Marshall Texas?? Fill us in
It will be interesting, nevertheless, to see how this pans out.

Another bit: I emailed the Scoop Free peopler (Lucky Litter LLC) three times asking them if in fact the permascoop was in fact, one of their gigs as the PS website claims. No reply.

Perma Scoop endorses a litter other than Fresh Step, who Lucky Litter is tied to. I think PermaScoop is just some local yokel trying to make a buck. No corporation, no trademarks, just trying to get over, and thinking titles will make him sound official. It just isn't good business to bad mouth a competitor. Its sleazy.

by **CatWomanStyle** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:12 pm

Just like ScoopFree to bully someone. If they are so worried about other people making boxes why don't they just make one themselves?

I will tell you why they don't, they must have a huge mark up on those trays. We switched to the Forever box and have been very happy ever since. We have saved a lot of money and I like not having to clean up after the leaking trays that ScoopFree sells.

by **jfulcher** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:18 am

Permascoop deserves to be bullied. I hope ScoopFree puts them out of business!

by **tiggerroo** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:47 pm

I e-mailed scoop free and this was their reply:
"I’m glad to hear that you have purchased one of our Scoop Free litter boxes. However, Permascope is not made by us. Our Scoop Free litter box is made to be used with our replacement litter cartridges that can be purchased through our website and through the various retailers that carry our product."

I saw the trademark line on the permascope website and it is just the type you need to post when referring to a trademarked name. It does not indicate that the companies are related.

by **Jack 'n Stans Dad** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:21 pm

"PermaScoop is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC"..............?

by **abbeytoo** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:26 am

Jack 'n Stans Dad wrote:"PermaScoop is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC"..............?

Doh! That looks like PS is claiming to be related to LL, to me. Pretty fraudulent IMO

by **tiggerroo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:33 pm

Hmmm. I didn't see that line.
This is what I found
"PermaScoop™, PermAlarm™, and PermaIon™ are trademarks of PermaScoop Inc. and Algorithmics Inc.

ScoopFree™ is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC"

by **abbeytoo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:50 pm

tiggerroo wrote:Hmmm. I didn't see that line.
This is what I found
"PermaScoop™, PermAlarm™, and PermaIon™ are trademarks of PermaScoop Inc. and Algorithmics Inc.

ScoopFree™ is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC"

http://www.permascoop.com/

scroll down to bottom of page. the yellow box on the left says "PermaScoop is a trademark of Lucky Litter, LLC"

Lucky Litter, LLC makes scoop free

by **tiggerroo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:54 pm

Sorry about that, I see it. I had looked at the legal page.

Hmmmm. I wonder which company is lying.

by **abbeytoo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:57 pm

I suspect Permascoop is the scoundrel. ScoopFree wouldnt be promoting a diferent brand of crystal litter, I wouldnt think. And besides, they want everyone to buy their cardboard trays. Then buy more. And more. Forever.

by **leek** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:18 am

I think it is clear that PermaScoop are the ones lying. I checked the USPTO site, and Lucky Litter, LLC does not have any trademark for PermaScoop:

Code: Select all: Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead 1 78576140 LUCKY LITTER TARR LIVE 2 78587795 3395851 SCOOP FREE TARR LIVE

It could just be a typo on PermaScoop's site -- someone tried to make it "look" legal by acknowledging trademarks, but carelessly mistyped "PermaScoop is a trademark of Lucky Litter" instead of "Scoop Free is a trademark of Lucky Litter". But seeing how long the error has hung around, it's suspicious. Lucky Litter should defend their trademark by sending PermaScoop a cease-and-desist letter, but seeing as how they have more serious legal problems thanks to the LitterMaid folks, I doubt they're worried about a tray maker.

I also wonder if any PermaScoop employees browse this site.

I tried a whois search on permascoop.com, but they use an anonymizing proxy. It seems like they have something to hide besides your cat's waste

PS. I ordered the Forever Tray. I can't believe people buy into the fear of PVC. Don't people know that many buildings' tap water goes through PVC pipes?

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