Reset Devices being banned?!?

The CatGenie is the only self-cleaning box on the market. An evolution of the LitterFree design, it connects to your household plumbing.

Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby RobDiablo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:04 pm

I just noticed that CatMan is selling his devices for $59 and the title says 'Get em while their hot!' Well, I just checked his competitions website, http://www.resetgenie.com, and the website looks like it is shutdown. I checked Ebay and his listings are now gone as well as well as the other 3 or 4 devices that were competing.

Is something happening preventing these guys from selling them anymore? Is CatMan unloading his inventory as fast as he can? I find it peculiar that all these things are happening at the same time. Quite coincidental don't you think?

Hmmmmm...
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby RobDiablo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:59 pm

I just got word from a friend that Cat Genie has sent cease and desist orders to anyone who is making and selling reset devices or face a lawsuit. What the f@*k!?
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby jeepshots » Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:50 pm

RobDiablo wrote:I just got word from a friend that Cat Genie has sent cease and desist orders to anyone who is making and selling reset devices or face a lawsuit. What the f@*k!?


Glad I got one ordered. But I don't see the legal leg that CG has to stand on. Someone's made a product that reads and resets cartridges. Big WHOOP. It seems to me that this is comparable to the re-fillable inkjet packages/products that are readily available, and that's perfectly legal. Voids warranty - yes, but 100% legal. This is the same thing. You're replacing the factory cartridges with your own, or replacing the solution contained inside. And just because it's their cartridges to begin with has nothing to do with it. You use the cartridge, and throw it away. It's now trash, and now public domain. Nobody has legal rights to it. You pick it back up and can re-use it. I just don't see their side of the legality. I personally think they're just rattling sabers, and seeing who jumps.

Catman, have you had your letter reviewed by a lawyer?
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby Pelvis Popcan » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:26 am

We don't know if CatMan received a letter yet, he hasn't said. His website is still up.

What I DO know is that the device is 100% legal, no question. (The device is made within reverse engineering standards and does not violate any trademarks or proprietary designs. Since the cartridges do not use any kind of security, the DMCA is not being violated either.)

In fact, in a previous thread (found here: http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2537-120.html) that was made while people were still in the process of examining the cartridges to see if resetting them was possible, a user was posting his information that helped lead to reprogramming the cartridges. He got nervous and removed his posts on his own. I immediately assumed that it was PetNovations who made him or the board owner remove his posts, and I commented as such:

Pelvis Popcan wrote:
It appears PetNovations has strong-armed and bullied members here into removing their posts, despite the fact that they were all within their legal rights and 100% followed the standards of reverse engineering.

Not cool at all. PetNovations may not like it, but it is completely their fault that they decided not to include any security features whatsoever in their cartridge system.

As much as I love my CatGenie, PetNovations as a company has crossed the line, and has completely lost my respect. In fact, their tactics of bullying forum members here might actually be illegal in the USA. This company really has a lot to learn.

I plead to the administrators of the board to please restore the censored posts.




Within one page, PetNovations responded with the following:

CatGenie wrote:Pelvis, I wish you apologized with as much energy as you attacked us.

I would hope by now, people would see that we are a very honest and straightforward company that would not censor posts. In fact, if you recall Pelvis you wanted posts you made that were not very pleasant about us removed and we said no. Why? Because all of us here at PetNovations not only believe in our product but we also believe in the integrity of our customers words and believe that while we prefer to hear the good, we MUST hear it all--and that is what drives us to never be satisfied and to continue to innovate.

We have and always will stand behind our product. We try and answer tough customer questions and spend time on forums like this one and others to interact with people and never lose our ability to listen. Additionally our dedicated customer service representatives are available by phone 7 days a week, 14 hours each day and we will continue to do so, because we care about our current and future customers. While it may sound hokey, we believe that the CatGenie will one day be THE cat box for everyone. We hope that you support us in this mission and bring cat sanitation into the 21st century.

While I cannot say we support what you are doing, I can say that while cartridge sales are a part of our business model, they are also important to the safe function of the CatGenie. We have already had people try to refill and ruin their floors, gummed up the inside of their unit etc. That is why we sell a cartridge that is sealed with a safe but effective cleaning solution that has been tested to ensure that is not just safe for people, but just as safe for our target user your cat.

We are a start-up company that believes that we have the solution to the litter box and while the CatGenie is far from perfect we do know that it is pretty damn great and will only get better and better. We are only just half way through our 2nd year of business and I personally think our product is pretty amazing and I speak not only as an employee, but also as the longest running CatGenie user in the USA.

We have plenty of things planned that we think will make people want to buy cartridges and that is our goal. We hope you support us not because you have to but because you want to.

Stay tuned!


I don't believe message board posts can be used as evidence, but just in case, I would save the following two pages in case PetNovations is changing their mind on their stance:

http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2537-105.html
http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2537-120.html
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby Pelvis Popcan » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:40 am

Here is resetgenie.com's front page from Google's cache. It doesn't look like any trademarks are being violated. This doesn't look good.

Image

If this is really true and PetNovations is sending cease and desist letters, then I once again change my stance to my quote above about PetNovations crossing the line.

CatMan may or may not decide to comply, in which case he risks being sued and having to hire a lawyer. If he has the money and time, he may do so, but it is more likely for an end user like him to simply obey the cease and desist. It is basically a form of legal extortion and it's extremely sad to see PetNovations taking this route (if it is indeed true).
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby locomanjim » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:06 am

So whats next CG are you going to bully CRS crafts for selling pvc pellets that work in the CG. Or the rock tumblers who sell pellets on ebey that work great in the CG. Try telling the truth on your web page 12.50 a cleaning cartridge, IN A 12 PACK...LOL How about putting that on your web page ! If i put out 150 bucks I will use some one else cleaner and use your cleaner to flush mine out before sending my unit back in to you, when my unit breaks like the cheap pin you use for the grabber arm. Why not buy out the reset devices and sell the cleaning liquid in gallon jugs, plugs and reset devices available to the public. THATS CALLED GOING GREEN! Think you can stop me from building my own reset device. YOU failed to set a security device that would have been against the law to decode and break, you used a standard eeprom almost any idiot can reprogram, that was your fault! I switched to CG to help stop the land fill of cat litter but your big green cleaning liquid box filled with aluminum is no better. So I purchased a CG reset device, buckeye 256 rose quat, I bypassed your cartridge and IF your eeprom goes bad I have 4 more to take its place. I have now even found a place to get your Silicone plugs. Face it CG you did not do your home work, your idea is great your security Stinks( insert other s work were stinks is- UCKS) and now you try to blame the other guy for your fault. In two years when my warranty is up and my CG dies Im going back to litter or someone elses machine! GO GREEN, FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND YOUR LOYALTY WILL RETURN, DIDN'T BUSINESS SCHOOL TEACH YOU ANYTHING. :lol:
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby Pelvis Popcan » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:32 am

I never ordered a reset device, I procrastinated and wasn't planning on using it really but I wanted to have it as a tool. I hope it's not too late to get one from CatMan. I will feel pretty victimized if I can't get one.
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby locomanjim » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:34 am

Oh and now there is a new reset device on the marker called the green reset machine on ebay go get em CG
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby locomanjim » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:36 am

Catmans website is still up! order now ! I hope he fights! he did nothing wrong CG did!
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby jeepshots » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:23 am

locomanjim wrote:So whats next CG are you going to bully CRS crafts for selling pvc pellets that work in the CG. Or the rock tumblers who sell pellets on ebey that work great in the CG. Try telling the truth on your web page 12.50 a cleaning cartridge, IN A 12 PACK...LOL How about putting that on your web page ! If i put out 150 bucks I will use some one else cleaner and use your cleaner to flush mine out before sending my unit back in to you, when my unit breaks like the cheap pin you use for the grabber arm. Why not buy out the reset devices and sell the cleaning liquid in gallon jugs, plugs and reset devices available to the public. THATS CALLED GOING GREEN! Think you can stop me from building my own reset device. YOU failed to set a security device that would have been against the law to decode and break, you used a standard eeprom almost any idiot can reprogram, that was your fault! I switched to CG to help stop the land fill of cat litter but your big green cleaning liquid box filled with aluminum is no better. So I purchased a CG reset device, buckeye 256 rose quat, I bypassed your cartridge and IF your eeprom goes bad I have 4 more to take its place. I have now even found a place to get your Silicone plugs. Face it CG you did not do your home work, your idea is great your security Stinks( insert other s work were stinks is- UCKS) and now you try to blame the other guy for your fault. In two years when my warranty is up and my CG dies Im going back to litter or someone elses machine! GO GREEN, FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND YOUR LOYALTY WILL RETURN, DIDN'T BUSINESS SCHOOL TEACH YOU ANYTHING. :lol:


Not to go too far off topic, but where did you get the silicone plugs?
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby RobDiablo » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:29 am

I guess the amount of money it would take to actually go to court just isn't worth the trouble for these guys. If it were me, I would represent myself and use the information from the Lexmark and inkjet cases to defend myself. But that's me and I'm not the actual one being threatened at the moment either.

I wish there was a way we could find a lawyer who owns a reset device who would be willing to stand up for our rights.
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby RobDiablo » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:44 am

I'd like to see the letter and see on what grounds they are using to threaten these guys. There is nothing that they are doing that a court would allow a case like this to proceed. It would be rejected before anyone even stepped foot into court.
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby Rich33527 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:16 pm

I cant see them being able to do this any more than Ford can sue aftermarket companies for parts they create that increase performance. The only action they should be able to take is to void your warranty.
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby morris » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:42 pm

Frankly I don't believe PetNovations would do this. They are the best company I have ever worked with. They monitor this board and have implemented improvements as a result of complaints and suggestions mentioned here. I think they should nip these rumors in the bud to stop the nay sayers in their tracks. They have a good product and are really trying to improve it all the time. They have the best customer service around. I think they are interested in aftermarket products and their success as a tool to guide future improvements. Give them the benefit of doubt. Innocent until proven guilty. I have seen NO PROOF of any threats by PetNovations to anyone. My 2¢.
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Re: Reset Devices being banned?!?

Postby RobDiablo » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:21 pm

I've asked the party I've been in contact with for proof but let me tell you this, where is CatMan? He posts to these forums everyday so if it wasn't true, he'd be backing that up saying he was still selling his devices and that the only reason he dropped his prices is because of ??????

And the other reset device website is mysteriously taken down and his ebay listings canceled for no reason? I can't see him just shutting down business one day because he got bored. The only thing that would prevent me from selling anymore is if there wasn't a market for it any more and that sure isn't the case.

And like it was mentioned earlier, I don't see how you can prevent them from selling these just like you can't prevent the entire aftermarket from making parts compatible with cars, mobile phones, camcorders, cameras, printers, etc... Like I said, I'd let them continue with their threats because there really isn't any grounds for them to sue!

Believe what you want but this is what's going on, otherwise, let's hear from those selling the device if it isn't. There may be a gag order in place too.
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