Automatic Litterbox Central

Can Genie should do like HP (since printer cartridge are such a good comparison) and send a envelope to return the used cartridge so they can refill and reuse it. It would be more green that throwing them out.

labstar wrote:In answer to the question "How do I Know" I have one of the NEW 120 Catgenies and it is Radio frequency technology

Cause it won't have the contacts points on the outside of the cartridge anymore. One of the problems that the RFID addressed was the contacts were not able to complete the circuit to the processing unit due to the problems arising with physical contact required on the pads.

I wonder what happens if you store the cartridges too close to the new processor unit...will it tick off the count on those cartridges, too?

labstar wrote:I wonder what happens if you store the cartridges too close to the new processor unit...will it tick off the count on those cartridges, too?

Yeah I didn't even think of that. That might be a big problem.

BamZipPow wrote:Cause it won't have the contacts points on the outside of the cartridge anymore. One of the problems that the RFID addressed was the contacts were not able to complete the circuit to the processing unit due to the problems arising with physical contact required on the pads.

I have posted some information on the RF-ID system used and it's really not that hard to bypass, see my topic here http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2967.html for details.
PN chose for a separate RF-ID reader instead of one integrated into the main controller. From a security point of view this could be considered a weakness. We are all in the negative on PN here, which is partly well-deserved due to the strong-arming of resetter makers, but this security weakness causes me to doubt PN's motives on switching to RF-ID: Many people have been complaining about brand new cartridges failing on insertions. Obviously there's a reliability problem, which very well may be caused by poor electrical contact. RF-ID is contact-less so it is much more reliable in this way.
As an extra benefit none of the resetters on the market can be used on them, but that's just a matter of time.

BamZipPow wrote:I wonder what happens if you store the cartridges too close to the new processor unit...will it tick off the count on those cartridges, too?

You don't have to worry about that. It's short range FR_ID and the reader is mounted to the side of the cartridge holder, so at any given position it's a least 2 inches removed from the side walls of the CG. Even if you strap a spare cartridge to the side of the unit it will still be safe.

Trashman wrote:Can Genie should do like HP (since printer cartridge are such a good comparison) and send a envelope to return the used cartridge so they can refill and reuse it. It would be more green that throwing them out.

The 'green' argument is a bogus argument IMHO: Those half gallon milk jugs used in America (and since a couple of years used in Europe as well) contain just as much plastic as a CG cartridge. Yet we all throw away those on a daily basis and nobody is complaining on the environmental impact of those (or considering to return them to the dairy companies). If you're living green enough to make one empty cartridge per month seriously influencing your waste production, you'll have my deepest respect. But for the most of us it doesn't make any difference and it's a lot better than having kilos ('pounds', 'stones, 'tonnes''?) of litter truck-lugged around the continent.

MindBender wrote:The 'green' argument is a bogus argument IMHO: Those half gallon milk jugs used in America (and since a couple of years used in Europe as well) contain just as much plastic as a CG cartridge. Yet we all throw away those on a daily basis and nobody is complaining on the environmental impact of those (or considering to return them to the dairy companies). If you're living green enough to make one empty cartridge per month seriously influencing your waste production, you'll have my deepest respect. But for the most of us it doesn't make any difference and it's a lot better than having kilos ('pounds', 'stones, 'tonnes''?) of litter truck-lugged around the continent.

Actually, I recycle about 90 percent or more of my house hold waste. What the city doesn't pick up weekly, I collect in large bins and take to the recycling company here in town when they are full. I end up with about half of one 13 gallon bag of trash every two weeks and a small bag of cat waste from my other cat box weekly. Some of us are passionate about recycling and take it very seriously. I carry my own canvas bags for groceries in my car at all times and even am taking the old crappy computer case my husband just discarded yesterday to be recycled. And for those who say...well your town recycles, that makes it easy for you...they didn't until this year and before that we kept everything in the garage in four huge 50 gallon cans that we had no room for and took the stuff to the recycle company ourselves when they were full for 5 years. Please don't project your views and practices onto others and assume some of us aren't serious about reducing our carbon footprint in a very substantial way.

I have never used anything other then the sani-solution in my CG, but I take the time to break down the cartridges and put them into recycle when done and just hope the pieces are actually recyclable. I would be much happier if the plastic and inner bag were listed as 100% recyclable and I would be ecstatic if there was a way to refill and thus eliminate the need to even recycle them.

Dawn

Hepkat wrote:Thanks for posting that Pelvis, it was very informative. I understand very well PetNovation's point of view. They're passionate about cats and invested millions of hard won money to develop a fine product. However, their initial offering was incomplete in that it demanded that consumers purchase an expensive cleaning solution that only comes in large, wasteful, non-recyclable cartridges. Instead of finding a more foolproof way of forcing customers to continue purchasing these cartridges and therefore contributing to landfill waste, PetNovations could render all resetting devices at once obsolete while earning points for caring about the environment by selling SaniSolution in bulk and allowing their customers to refill their cartridges.

Reroute the resetting devices by setting up refilling stations at pet stores. Customers would then pay a low fee to have their cartridges refilled on the spot. Pet stores would readily agree to these filling stations as anything that brings traffic into their stores is necessarily a good thing. For the consumer: no delivery charges, no fretting and worrying whenever the cartridge runs low on a weekend, no risk of using untested and potentially dangerous chemicals, and ultimately no need to purchase resetting devices. It would be a win-win situation for all concerned: pet stores win by gaining increased traffic, PetNovation wins by still making profit from used cartridges while saving the environment and eliminating resetting devices and the consumer wins by having a more practical and convenient way of obtaining a safe solution for use with their CatGenie while also saving the environment.

It could be so simple! PetNovations, are you listening? You cannot win this one with threats, but rather by undercutting and underselling those who would manufacture resetting devices. This would be the smart and intelligent way to go. But then again, I'm not the one in charge of PetNovations and it's not my millions at stake.

this idea was proposed years ago
catgenie/topic2299.html?hilit=refill%20station#p12778

Oh no I was just about to buy one of the reset devices. Is there anywhere that still sells a cartridge device? The sanisolution is horrible because it is so sticky and causes the litter to stick to my cat's feet. I not only need to buy new catridges, but also have to buy litter to replenish the ones that get tracked off the box due to the stickiness.

Just a tip CatGenie, maybe work on a new improved SaniSolution that is less sticky?

Once I confirm that my bulk setup won't leak/drip out...I'll strip out the rest of my SaniSolution carts and empty the solution into the bulk container. Yes...brand new SaniSolution cartridges from PetNovations. I need the visible confirmation of the solution vs the current method of guessing. With half a gallon at a time...by the time the bulk container would be empty...it would be time to clean the Cat Genie anyways...

So it's still a win situation fer PetNovations...I'm buying the cartridges like normal but I have an option to run it fer a long time without my intervention...until there's a problem.

Mad, Ol' Cat Lady wrote:

MindBender wrote:The 'green' argument is a bogus argument IMHO: Those half gallon milk jugs used in America (and since a couple of years used in Europe as well) contain just as much plastic as a CG cartridge. Yet we all throw away those on a daily basis and nobody is complaining on the environmental impact of those (or considering to return them to the dairy companies). If you're living green enough to make one empty cartridge per month seriously influencing your waste production, you'll have my deepest respect. But for the most of us it doesn't make any difference and it's a lot better than having kilos ('pounds', 'stones, 'tonnes''?) of litter truck-lugged around the continent.

Actually, I recycle about 90 percent or more of my house hold waste. What the city doesn't pick up weekly, I collect in large bins and take to the recycling company here in town when they are full. I end up with about half of one 13 gallon bag of trash every two weeks and a small bag of cat waste from my other cat box weekly. Some of us are passionate about recycling and take it very seriously. I carry my own canvas bags for groceries in my car at all times and even am taking the old crappy computer case my husband just discarded yesterday to be recycled. And for those who say...well your town recycles, that makes it easy for you...they didn't until this year and before that we kept everything in the garage in four huge 50 gallon cans that we had no room for and took the stuff to the recycle company ourselves when they were full for 5 years. Please don't project your views and practices onto others and assume some of us aren't serious about reducing our carbon footprint in a very substantial way.

I have never used anything other then the sani-solution in my CG, but I take the time to break down the cartridges and put them into recycle when done and just hope the pieces are actually recyclable. I would be much happier if the plastic and inner bag were listed as 100% recyclable and I would be ecstatic if there was a way to refill and thus eliminate the need to even recycle them.

Dawn

He is right to call out the hype over the "green" and "carbon footprint" craze. You must have some serious work in order to actually offset the carbon required to support all those cats and yourself and you family. Several things struck me in your post. All of that recycling that gets hauled to a center either by you or a municipal source = carbon. All that driving to collect the stuff and haul it around = carbon. All that plastic that gets recycled and has to be melted down = carbon. Also, when you say you "hope the pieces are recyclable" if you are randomly inserting plastic into the recycling stream without verifying what type it is, then you are contaminating an entire load of plastic. That stuff either has to sorted and picked out (= carbon) or the entire contaminated load has to be discarded to a landfill = more carbon. You would be best to keep the unidentified stuff and maybe ask someone at the recycling center what to do with it. Great that you are recycling and reusing. But don't confuse that with substantially reducing your carbon footprint. Have you verified with the municipality or the recycler what is actually happening with all of your stuff? If there is no market to sell it off they may just be hauling it to a landfill. That's the dirty little secret they don't tell us. We all think we are doing our part then we find out the city government can't sell the collected recyclables because the market is down in this crappy economy so they truck the stuff to a landfill. Also, we may be passionate about recycling but it doesn't even put a dent in the waste and the carbon that major industries spew out on a daily basis. And don't even get me started on the extraordinary amounts of trees and oil that it takes to produce diapers for America's babies.....Go Green and the Carbon Footprint Ideal......for the majority of the people it's just a feel good thing but IMO it's just a load of hype to distract from the real waste culprits...industry. I'm not saying to stop recycling and reducing waste, I'm still going to do it, I'm just saying to not be so sanctimonious about it. "Greenwashing" is a term I recently heard. Kinda like brainwashing...

Plastics are notoriously hard to recycle because there are hundreds of different kinds and only few of them mix. There is no practical way to keep them apart, unless you don't mind have 5 extra bins for the most commonly used mixable groups. Not to start on the very limited field of application for these plastics. Yeah, you can make garbage bags out of it, but guess where those will go? Nowadays plastics can be made from crops like corn and potatoes. Those plastics are biodegradable, but more expensive and supply is limited.

The whole green inquisition was invented by environmentalists, not based on any facts or science at all, to get funds or benefit from it otherwise. Anybody knows Mr. Al Gore, who preaches people on how to live green, but not feeling any urge himself in any way by practicing what he preaches. They even got him a Nobel price, for peace for crying out loud (probably because the commission didn't have any alternative; it wasn't a very peaceful year). And a very easy inquisition it is, because who could be against the environment? And why aren't the oil companies held responsible for the CO2 'problem'? It's them who pump it all up and eventually it will all end up in the atmosphere. And if the green house effect is real, why isn't anybody worrying about a green house gas that's much worse than CO2: H2O. Yes, water vapor has a much greater thermal capacity than CO2 and yet hydrogen burning engines are proposed to offer a solution, while they have water vapor coming out of their exhausts. There's hardly any science involved here. People, please stop your Pavlov reactions on dogmas and start using your common sense. It's an invented disease, invented by environmentalists and adapted by politicians to apply the universal-cure-to-everything: More taxes.

Yes, we are exhausting (if not raping) our planet and we should do what we can to prevent pollution, but come-on; Separating plastics? The European union has banned incandescent light bulbs. Does anybody have any idea how many bulbs I have to swap for fluorescent lamps in order to compensate the one shop leaving it's front door open with the airco running? As long as wasting-through-stupidity isn't banned the problem can't be as serious as told. As we say: Pick the low hanging fruits first

Anyone any news on those reset devices allegedly being banned?

Speaking of recycling, I just read some very interesting statistics that stated that it only makes environmental and economic sense to recycle certain glass bottles and pieces of metals. Everything else, the study suggested, actually produces more waste and requires more energy in order to recycle, than the recycled material itself is worth. Put another way, any waste and energy we save by recycling plastics, for example, is rendered irrelevant when we consider how much waste and energy is required by the recycling process. Because of this waste expenditure, many regular citizens aren't aware that most recycling plants have to be subsidized by local governments in order to be able to break even or even make a profit. At the same time, these same local governments have enacted strict laws that require recycling even though it's clearly detrimental to the environment and economy.

Another report I read concerned the recent drive to use energy saving bulbs. What never gets explained however, is that the amount of energy and harmful raw materials required to manufacture these energy saving bulbs drastically offset any energy savings the end user may experience. It's actually better for the environment to stick to the old fluorescent bulbs that burn more energy than to switch to energy saving bulbs that require even more energy to manufacture.

Just some food for thought.

MustLoveDogs wrote:He is right to call out the hype over the "green" and "carbon footprint" craze. You must have some serious work in order to actually offset the carbon required to support all those cats and yourself and you family. Several things struck me in your post. All of that recycling that gets hauled to a center either by you or a municipal source = carbon. All that driving to collect the stuff and haul it around = carbon. All that plastic that gets recycled and has to be melted down = carbon. Also, when you say you "hope the pieces are recyclable" if you are randomly inserting plastic into the recycling stream without verifying what type it is, then you are contaminating an entire load of plastic. That stuff either has to sorted and picked out (= carbon) or the entire contaminated load has to be discarded to a landfill = more carbon. You would be best to keep the unidentified stuff and maybe ask someone at the recycling center what to do with it. Great that you are recycling and reusing. But don't confuse that with substantially reducing your carbon footprint. Have you verified with the municipality or the recycler what is actually happening with all of your stuff? If there is no market to sell it off they may just be hauling it to a landfill. That's the dirty little secret they don't tell us. We all think we are doing our part then we find out the city government can't sell the collected recyclables because the market is down in this crappy economy so they truck the stuff to a landfill. Also, we may be passionate about recycling but it doesn't even put a dent in the waste and the carbon that major industries spew out on a daily basis. And don't even get me started on the extraordinary amounts of trees and oil that it takes to produce diapers for America's babies.....Go Green and the Carbon Footprint Ideal......for the majority of the people it's just a feel good thing but IMO it's just a load of hype to distract from the real waste culprits...industry. I'm not saying to stop recycling and reducing waste, I'm still going to do it, I'm just saying to not be so sanctimonious about it. "Greenwashing" is a term I recently heard. Kinda like brainwashing...

I didn't say I was canceling out my footprint, I said I am working to reduce it and the claim that I was refuting said that everyone bitching about the cartridges filling land fill was an excuse for using the reset device and no one really cared or they would bitch about plastic milk cartons. I don't use the reset device or anything other then sani-solution and I do as much as I know how and am continually striving to learn and implement new ways to reduce our footprint even more and I am truly upset about adding the cartridges to landfill. I make no claims on how effective anything I do is, but I try and I am serious about it and my concerns over the cartridges are real and I am sure others are too so that is STILL a valid consideration.

It seems like every single day some new study comes out about how this is or that is even worse for the environment then what we were doing before or that thing they told us to do last year is now a bad idea... There is nothing we can do other than what is at that time considered the right thing to do and as more information is found, try to adapt our practices to make a difference. Other than that we just throw up our hands and do nothing and say oh well, it could all be bull so why even try to do anything?

Dawn

Mad, Ol' Cat Lady wrote:... or they would bitch about plastic milk cartons. ...

I didn't mean to bitch, Cat Lady. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. As I wrote, my deepest respect if you do whatever you can to save the environment, but scientifically it doesn't make much of a difference because there are easier points to score. And if you compare smart cartridge land fill with bentonite land fill, the CatGenie doesn't do that bad at all.

I'm merely trying to debunk the arguments I frequently read here, from both sides, for and against refilling. As you know by now I think the green argument for refilling isn't a very good one . Neither is PN's argument against refilling to avoid warranty claims after 'illegal' refilling: If that concern motivated them to implement the smart chip, they didn't have to make those cartridges so expensive (not to mention that their product should be robust enough to tolerate refilling).

The only argument from both sides that hold up is Money. [sarcasm]PN thinks they have an idea that's so good, that it doesn't only justify people to pay the main price for buying their implementation of it, they also think paying an operational tax for it is justified as well. And if people don't pay this tax, they shouldn't be able to use their idea anymore, even though they already bought their appliance. Those annoying non-PN-tax-paying customers should be punished, by keeping their boxes hostage! That'll teach'em! And this attitude is fully reflected in the lawyer letters sent to the even more annoying resetter makers.[/sarcasm]

Mad, Ol' Cat Lady wrote: Other than that we just throw up our hands and do nothing and say oh well, it could all be bull so why even try to do anything?

Dawn

Well, that's the point, yes. This entire green craze and carbon footprint craze is turning out to be a bunch of hype to distract us from the real problems. Several of the posts above called out some of the specifics. I mean really, it doesn't take much thought to realize it must be better to not make the stuff in the first place then to set up entire interwoven industries for hauling, sorting, processing, storing, and selling the stuff. All the while each step compounds the original problem in the first place. Greenwashing. Perfect name for it. IMO much better to buy only what you need and then reuse what you have. Only that's not feasible in today's consumer driven, on demand, must be convenient for me lifestyle. And of course, while we are busy in our little hamlets not raping the planet, what's happening all over the globe in 3rd world areas?

Since we've started our recycling initiative, we had to buy extra cans to handle it all. Some weeks I don't even set out the garbage can, only the recycling. You should see the odd looks we get. Then, as it turns out, we find out the city isn't even recycling the crap. Hasn't been for over a year. They couldn't find a cost effective market for it, so it was cheaper to haul the stuff away to a landfill. And not even our own local landfill. They are dumping it 150 miles (one way) away in some other folks' back yard. Why? Because that landfill operator charges lower tipping fees and in turn, increases their business and profit and even with the hauling costs, it's cheaper to send it away.

Of course, we can only recycle clear glass, not brown or green or blue. That has to go in the trash. And if someone who doesn't care or "hopes it's recyclable" and puts even one piece of color glass in the stream, or window glass, the entire load is contaminated and has to go to....the landfill.

Wow. Go Green.

I'm not saying to stop, I'm just saying maybe there's a better way. Like in the "olden days" when my grandmother sent us to the local dairy store with empty glass bottles to turn in and buy new milk in the reused bottles. What year was that? 1957? 1932? No, 1975. Of course, we also had a digester in the ground, sort of like a septic tank and in that went the dog poo and cat poo (from the yard because the cats shit outside in those days) an incinerator for paper, a compost pile for food waste, a small metal trash can for what was left. Of course, not all of this is feasible today, but this green movement which started out to be a solution seems to be going in the other direction.