Automatic Litterbox Central

Not to get this thread off topic, but as with many products, you can find cheaper prices than buying direct from the manufacturer if you shop around.

Orders >$25 at Amazon.com ship free, and the cartridges are $15 each. There is also a "hidden" buy-three-get-one-free deal. I say hidden because if you add four to your cart and go to checkout, one of them is free, though it doesn't appear that this deal is advertised anywhere. Same deal with the granules.

Some still might find this price to be pretty steep.

Check out buying the cartridges through robotshop, I ordered 10 for $127.90 and shipping was less that $20.

Thanks for the info on savings, good to know. But that doesn't solve the problem that you still have to wait for the item to be shipped and if you happen to run out at the last second, you're screwed.

And for those who say it's my own fault for not pre-ordering, THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It should be convenient to be able to go and pick up supplies from your local pet store at your own will.

It also doesn't address the point, made over and over again in many posts, that the cartridges are wasteful and some kind of recycling plan should be put together.

RobDiablo wrote:Per request, I have removed the letter images from this topic.

Who asked you to remove the letter?

This seems to be just strong arm tactics by Petnovations to maintain their monopoly on the cleaning cartridges. I think using the DMCA is a extremely long stretch in this case. More likely than not, PN is hoping that both of you will pull your product from the market, and not push back. To me, this is not good business. I know I will no longer purchase any cartridges from PN, and certainly will not upgrade our current PN to a newer model. In addition, I will not recommend their product to anyone.

abbeytoo wrote:

RobDiablo wrote:Per request, I have removed the letter images from this topic.

Who asked you to remove the letter?

The individual who provided me with the letter did not know I was going to post it and asked that I remove it in fear of retribution from the law firm representing PN.

It should be convenient to be able to go and pick up supplies from your local pet store at your own will.

RobDiblo and the rest of us Genie people, this wish may be coming true. I found out there are some PetSmart stores in Texas that carries the Catgenie stuff! Yep, honest to goodness brick and mortor stores, with doors and ceiling lights and all. Not only that, I've heard from my neighbors (in nearby Texas) that they have them scattered about the 48. So there may be hope for the forgetful!! Maybe we should start a new topic and have the locations reported?

As for resetting and refilling I'm not about all that, but who would ever think a cat box would be so exciting!

Lilbit with a 'lil view of the Rocky Mountains!

Trashman wrote:Check out buying the cartridges through robotshop, I ordered 10 for $127.90 and shipping was less that $20.

Link...

BamZipPow wrote:

Trashman wrote:Check out buying the cartridges through robotshop, I ordered 10 for $127.90 and shipping was less that $20.

Link...

Thanks, I am new to the site and am not sure about the rules concerning posting links.

CatGenie sent me a private message. If they have been paying a "top" lawyer for "months" of work, they should NOT be sending ANY private messages out to strangers over the Internet. Their lawyer should have instructed them on this. I strongly advise CatGenie to not send out any more private messages to anyone.

I have been debating to post it since it will surely be of interest to people, but I don't feel right directly quoting it. I decided to paraphrase it instead, since that will basically make it hearsay.

Please keep in mind this is all from PetNovation's perspective.

• According to PetNovations and their attorney, the reset devices are illegal.
  
• PetNovations has spent a lot of time (months) and money with their attorney who specializes in cases such as this before sending cease and desist letters.
  
• PetNovations has replaced many units under warranty where it was determined that the damage was caused by solutions being used other than SaniSolution. In many such cases, the warranty is voided, but only after making a final free repair.
  
• Damage is caused by the inappropriate solutions dissolving or drying out tubes and seals. The solutions then leak out onto internal wires and/or boards. Examples of solutions that cause this are bleach, Simple Green, and other chemicals at too high a concentration.
  
• PetNovations has spent a great deal of time and money on research and development of SaniSolution, including the utilization of services from several chemists. SaniSolution is at "just the right" concentration to kill bacteria while being safe for cats and humans, as well as being safe for all of the parts of the machine that it comes into contact with. Such machine parts have been soaked in SaniSolution for months or even years (some parts are even still soaking) to insure compatibility.
  
• PetNovations views itself as a small company who rather than "screwing" its customers by sending cease and desist letters to reset device makers/vendors, is being "screwed" by people who make and/or sell reset devices. PetNovations themselves deals with a lot of issues its customers are unaware of, including being "blocked" (my own note, not sure what that means, their word) by very large companies such as Purina and Clorox.
  
• PetNovations is very displeased with the comments of about "20-25" posters here (including myself), who they believe post vile comments and bash the company with much vigor, so much so that the person posting on the "CatGenie" account does not want his company employees reading the forums, not because he doesn't want them reading negative comments, but because they work very hard to please their customers and does not want them to lose motivation due to the comments from these "20-25" posters.
  
• The CatGenie is UL listed.
  
• CatGenie and SaniSolution is in full compliance with the law. While SaniSolution is not yet tested by the EPA, PetNovations is not saying anything in its literature that violates any EPA rules.

I can definitely get a real sense of the passion of the person posting on the "CatGenie" account. I have tried to tell him again and again, I do NOT hate the company, and I do NOT wish to bash or attack them. This is a public message board where people can post their OPINIONS. Internet message boards and social networking sights have had a MAJOR impact on businesses across the world in a very short time, and some businesses seem to be taking a long time to realize that this is a VERY different world than it was 20 years ago. I feel businesses have a greater need than ever for a public relations specialist who should handle all internet communications.

That all being said, I stand by my feelings regarding end user's rights. Can you imagine if a company made a dish washer or clothes washer that you could not use detergent in, but instead had to buy company approved cartridges with onboard security chips? Think about that for a moment.

Thanks for posting that Pelvis, it was very informative. I understand very well PetNovation's point of view. They're passionate about cats and invested millions of hard won money to develop a fine product. However, their initial offering was incomplete in that it demanded that consumers purchase an expensive cleaning solution that only comes in large, wasteful, non-recyclable cartridges. Instead of finding a more foolproof way of forcing customers to continue purchasing these cartridges and therefore contributing to landfill waste, PetNovations could render all resetting devices at once obsolete while earning points for caring about the environment by selling SaniSolution in bulk and allowing their customers to refill their cartridges.

Reroute the resetting devices by setting up refilling stations at pet stores. Customers would then pay a low fee to have their cartridges refilled on the spot. Pet stores would readily agree to these filling stations as anything that brings traffic into their stores is necessarily a good thing. For the consumer: no delivery charges, no fretting and worrying whenever the cartridge runs low on a weekend, no risk of using untested and potentially dangerous chemicals, and ultimately no need to purchase resetting devices. It would be a win-win situation for all concerned: pet stores win by gaining increased traffic, PetNovation wins by still making profit from used cartridges while saving the environment and eliminating resetting devices and the consumer wins by having a more practical and convenient way of obtaining a safe solution for use with their CatGenie while also saving the environment.

It could be so simple! PetNovations, are you listening? You cannot win this one with threats, but rather by undercutting and underselling those who would manufacture resetting devices. This would be the smart and intelligent way to go. But then again, I'm not the one in charge of PetNovations and it's not my millions at stake.

Well, PetNovations feels screwed. What percentage of their potential sales of cartridges is affected? Quite low, I am sure. It just makes them seem to be full of greed. From the price of the solution and granules they are just another printer maker. Make a unit and gouge the customer with supply costs for a great product.

I fully agree with Pelvis here. Even though some of my post may have sounded a bit vigorous to some, I still think the CatGenie is a great product; Sarcasm is often misunderstood. The CG people I have dealt with so far clearly have a passion for their product and their customers. They respond to email promptly, correctly and are always helpful in solving your problem. Our kittens won't arrive until the end of this week, so I haven't been able to test the CG yet, but it looks well designed, well built and well thoroughly thought through.
Unfortunately the product has one flaw; It's a flaw by design and with that I'm referring to the saniproblem and the way customers are strong-armed into using it by keeping your CG hostage. I understand a lot of effort went into finding the proper solution and that just throwing in any kind of cleaning agent may harm the device, the cats using it and the CG reputation. One solution to this problem is to sell the cleaning agent in bottles at a reasonable price. Another one is to make it run without cleaning agent if the cartridge is empty.
See, if I buy were to buy a $50 printer, there's a point in manufacturers trying to recoup some of their revenue in the price of the cartridges. And in this case I can even imagine that they are trying to protect their revenue but preventing people to refill them. But I don't want to pay for my printer every time I print a sheet of paper, so I bought a $1500 color laser, even though I print very few. It's a matter of principle.
But we're not talking about a $50 printer here. I have paid 349.95 British pounds for my CG. That's $582 in Yankee money and that didn't include shipment. I refuse to believe they're not making any profit on that. And I think CG should try to have it both ways.

But my unit turns out to be a new 120 unit (whatever that may be) and it has a new type of smart chip in the cartridges, rendering the current resetters useless: http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2967.html
The availability information on how to reset the chip was one of my motivations to finally get a CG. But I'm not disappointed because the new features make up for it and 120 cleaning cycles per cartridge isn't too bad.

In answer to the question "How do I Know" I have one of the NEW 120 Catgenies and it is Radio frequency technology

RobDiablo wrote:Thanks for the info on savings, good to know. But that doesn't solve the problem that you still have to wait for the item to be shipped and if you happen to run out at the last second, you're screwed.

And for those who say it's my own fault for not pre-ordering, THAT'S NOT THE POINT. It should be convenient to be able to go and pick up supplies from your local pet store at your own will.

It also doesn't address the point, made over and over again in many posts, that the cartridges are wasteful and some kind of recycling plan should be put together.

.. or if, as in my case, you HAVE two or three still-shrinkwrapped, brand new cartridges that fail from the start! So, in THOSE cases, you're only safe if you have a 10-12 brand new cartridges so that you can overcome the high failure rate. This DESPITE the fact that I am on my third PU! And THIS is the sole reason I bought a resetter. So that I can refill a KNOWN good cartridge and not be stuck for five to seven days until UPS can deliver my order. I literally had a garage floor full of almost-full cartridges that just never worked or stopped working after nine uses. In fact, the resetter I bought revealed that six of them had 51 uses left on them when they failed.

If CG would get on the stick and make their cartridges locally available in every part of the country, this wouldn't really e an issue. But NO ONE in my area carries the cartridges. And I live in a MAJOR metro area.

The "Smart" cartridges are not!