Automatic Litterbox Central

This kind of got buried in the other thread, and I think this warrants its own thread. This has me alarmingly concerned. I think CatGenie owes its customers an official explanation on this.

Here's the issue:

When the CatGenie runs, during the DRYING CYCLE, the unit dispenses "SaniSolution" DIRECTLY onto the granules THREE times. (My understanding was that the SaniSolution was DILUTED in the water which is added to the box during the WASH cycle.) This means that after it's done drying, you have STICKY granules with UNDILUTED SaniSolution right on the granules. When kitty scratches in there, kitty is going to get that directly on his/her paws, when he/she will then lick. EVERY time your cat uses the box, he/she will get MORE SaniSolution on his/her paws, and will be ingesting it when he/she licks his/her paws.

The MSDS for the SaniSolution DOES say that it is toxic.

I did not discover this information myself. Flyguyjake ran his CatGenie WITHOUT the GenieHand and bowl and observed when the SaniSolution was dispensed:

flyguyjake wrote:The CatGenie dispenses SaniSolution as follows; 1 "squirt" of SaniSolution during fill #2, and about 4-5 squirts during fill #3. It then dispenses 1 squirt about 2 minutes into the drying cycle and then about 4 more squirts towards the middle of the drying cycle. This would most likely be why the granules are sticky. It does not dispense any SaniSoultion in fill #1 most likely since there is residue left from the SaniSolution it puts in during the drying cycle. The SaniSolution is clear and when rubbed between your fingers is the consistency of a very runny dish soap, kinda slimey. It foams up just a tad when it's mixed into the water.

flyguyjake wrote:Pelvis Popcan & luvmymainecoon,

Yes I'm 100% positive that the SaniSolution is added directly into the bowl with the granules during the drying cycle. In fact it's added 3 yes 3 TIMES!

If you find time observe your CatGenie during the final draining through the drying cycle you will see each of the doses.

Here's when it dispenses SaniSolution; (times may vary... as I didn't have a watch on...sorry )

First Dose;
During the final draining just as all the water is drained from the bowl watch the water outlet near the rim of the bowl and you will see clear "drips" running down the rim of the bowl as it's spinning. Yup that's SaniSolution... Touch it! Smell it! Ewww but don't Taste It!

Second Dose;
About 5 minutes or so into the drying cycle the GenieHand will raise up and then back down into the bowl. The bowl will stop spinning. It stopped spinning so that CatGenie could add more... SaniSolution!
Watch the water outlet you'll see it. If the granules are up the rim of the bowl too high or too close to the water outlet you may miss it. So as the GenieHands rasing up be sure to knock the granules down so you'll have a clear view of the water outlet.

Third Dose;
About 10 minutes or so into the drying cycle you'll see the GenieHand go up again and back into the bowl. The bowl will stop spinning. And boom... in comes more of that great SaniSolution! Watch the water outlet and you'll see it. The bowl only stops spinning to add SaniSolution.

Make sure you're not watching the GenieHand going up and down or you may miss the SaniSolution going into the bowl. It happens pretty fast. Maybe the only reason the GenieHand goes up and down at these points is to mesmerize you so that you won't see the CatGenie sneek in some Cat Poision.

So according to the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the SaniSolution it's toxic. We'd better all start testing out "petsafe" alternatives quickly that don't leave a sticky residue and won't harm our precious babies. I still think an enzyme based product is the way to go since it stays in the bowl with the urine and feces it will be working overtime to eat away at all that yummy food! Should help to keep smells down in between wash cycles as well.

Anyone tried any new solution alternatives yet?

This has me very concerned about the product's safety. Is this actually CORRECT behavior? If so, what is the rationale behind it being considered safe?

I want to be very clear, I am NOT attacking the product or the company. I think this is a very important issue and I am worried for my cat's safety.

Are you going to ask your vet to research the MSDS? I'm going to ask my vet to give me his opinion on the safety of the solution. I would really like to hear other vet's opinions on the matter.

I don't have a copy of the MSDS.

MSDS doesn't list ingredients, and without that, I don't think any vet or doctor can correctly ascertain anything specific regarding toxicity.

I'd really like to hear official word from PetNovations on this. It almost sounds like a malfunction to me. Why would the box dispense undiluted solution during the drying cycle? (I have not checked my box regarding the behavior flyguyjake reported.)

I explained everything in this post, plus have a link to the MSDS:
http://www.litterbox-central.com/litter-box/catgenie/topic2747-15.html#p15230

Petnovation does not give the ingredients in the MSDS, BUT BY LAW they have to divulge this info to Doctor or Vet. That's why you have to talk to your vet, give him/her the MSDS, and ask them to make the inquiry. I doubt PN will give up the formula to us here, they will claim trade secret I'm sure, since they don't give the info in their MSDS...

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion. The most logical explanation is that the SaniSolution is quite harmless in small doses, such as what's dispensed into the bowl during drying. As with many other chemicals that we ingest on a daily basis (toothpaste, food conservatives and mouthwash come to mind), consuming a few ounces of SaniSolution in one sitting would probably render it quite toxic, but this is still not the same as a few squirts mixed into 2 or 3 pounds of granule.

I agree, I'm sure it's pretty harmless. But for Pelvis Popcan's peace of mind, I think he should follow through and get an answer from a Vet. I think it would give everyone some peace of mind to know for yourself. Even though, PN has worked with Vets to come up with the formula they use, wouldn't you feel better if the Vet you trust gave it their blessing also? I know I would feel better. Plus Pelvis Popcan has a specific pet health issue he's dealing with, and knowledge is power when I come to those things....if only our cats could talk to us - but they can't.

Exsqueeze me, but how is it even possible for sanisolution to be introduced the the granules during the drying process? It doesn't squirt on the granules at all, but into the water when the bowl is full. During the drying mode, it would be impossible for the granules to come in direct contact with with sani-solution, wouldn't it?

Still2cats2many wrote:Exsqueeze me, but how is it even possible for sanisolution to be introduced the the granules during the drying process? It doesn't squirt on the granules at all, but into the water when the bowl is full. During the drying mode, it would be impossible for the granules to come in direct contact with with sani-solution, wouldn't it?

It does dispense into the bowl. Look at the bottom of your Processing Unit the next time to take it off for cleaning. Or better yet, look at your User Manual page 9. You will see what they call an orange niplet on the bottom. It's easy to see that it aims right into the bowl area.

Still2cats2many,

It's a reality my friend, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.
As CatMan stated simply look at the bottom of your CPU at the tiny red or orange colored nipple located directly next to the water outlet which is the round pencil sized hole next to it. Here is a picture from instructables where he's pointing to the sanisolution nozzle. You can see that it is tilted, this is so that it can shoot into the bowl.



If you were to run a wash cycle with the bowl out, you will see what looks like a squirt gun shooting down from the water outlet area, this is the tiny sanisolution stream.

Quite fascinating huh?

And for those of you that argue it's safe or it's such a small amount it doesn't matter...Watch ERIN BROCOVICH!!!

CatGenie has only been on the market for 2 years, they are just getting started. Our cats haven't ingested enough of this sh*t yet for us to know if it's safe or not. NO "chemical" is safe no matter what concentration you are ingesting. Long term, it all has side effects.

For any of you that feel it's safe, then YOU LICK IT! Go ahead... lick the side of the bowl, swallow of few granules, run your hand in the bowl and granules then lick your hand clean. Now do this everyday for a few weeks and see how you feel, then report back to us if it's safe! After all, it's sanitized right?

Perhaps this is why a certain percentage of cats won't use the CatGenie, due to the taste of the residue they are licking off of their paws!!!

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous argument. Mammals are capable of filtering out many different kinds of poisons, as long as they don't ingest a bottle full in one sitting. I don't need to try licking SaniSolution in order to know that it's harmless, I and countless millions of other people already consume on a daily basis mouthwash, a whole barrage of disinfectants and soap products, dishwashing detergents, dishwasher drying agent, house cleaning chemicals, too many preservatives to name, small pieces of metals, plastics and animal waste in our food supply, chlorine in our water supply and the list goes inexhaustibly on and on. What do you think we have livers for?

In addition, we all seem to be forgetting that in their natural habitat, cats are exposed to an unlimited amount of poisons, dirt and filth yet they continue to survive after millions of years. Last summer while having my home air-conditioning serviced, my cat inadvertently stepped into a puddle of refrigerant fluid and by licking himself, ingested quite a large amount of this extremely toxic chemical. Suffice it to say, I've never worried as much as I did that day, since I thought he'd surely die, but the vet informed me that they're tough little animals and are capable of fighting off a host of poisons. After two days of vomiting and foaming at the mouth, I'm happy to say that kitty survived the ordeal with flying colors and got back to being a cat with all the usual old tricks. My point here is simply to say that cats, and by extension mammals, are more resilient than any of us can imagine. Ingesting a few grams of SaniSolution a month through licking is certainly not going to kill the cat, just as if they were in the wild they'd be ingesting far more powerful and lethal poisons.

Hepkat,

I'm sorry that you feel our discussion isn't agreeable to your opinions or beliefs however this is the whole purpose of a forum and specifically this thread which is very specific. I understand your points, however consider these points as well;

Would we have filters on our refrigerators if the water was so "clean" ?
Would we have "organic" meats, vegetables, fruits and dairy products if our food was so "pure" & "healthy" ?
Would we have "pet-safe" cleaning products if our household chemicals are so safe? Toxic free?
Would we have hybrid cars if our gas guzzlers are so environmentally friendly?
Would we have 3 types of gasoline to buy for our cars if it was just "all the same ole gas" ?

No because we all have choices in life. Choices to buy better products which make a real difference in our lives...

I'm sure you get my drift here. We can all improve our environments and our overall health if we choose to. I personally choose to buy organic foods, drink filtered water, use pet safe cleaning products and recycle! Because I want to do my small part to make a difference for my community and my families tomorrow. I also want to take care of my two precious kitties to the best of my ability which means I take pride in their environment so that they too can live a more healthy and longer life. That is my choice.

Um hello we ALL spent upwards of $300 for a LITTER BOX aka Cat Toilet for crying out loud!
Wasn't that to improve you and your kitties lives?

So this thread has just as much merit as does any other thread a person takes the time to create and express their concerns, opinions and ideas with the rest of this terrific community. After all this very forum brought the possiblity of a reset device for our cartridges! And I'm confident that many more unique and creative ideas, concepts and inventions will come from this forum as well. We already know that CatGenie reads this daily so we very well may see our ideas in the 3rd edition of the CatGenie, 4th edition if you count Litterfree petnovations first "cat toilet".

Aside from the "possible" dangers of the sanisolution, I for one want a less sticky alternative to use in my CatGenie and so do many owners. So I'm sure this thread will continue with unhappy owners who seek an alternative "sani" solution.

I for one am not happy about the sanisolution being dispersed directly onto the granules. I use pet-safe products in my house also and feed my cat a raw diet because I'm not happy with all the junk in commercial pet foods. So I do tend to be on the "natural" "holisitic" side of things and this makes me nervous. What I'm doing as a quick fix is, after running the CG, I put a scented cartrdige in (that I happen to have, but don't use scented cartridges anymore) just to get it going, then take it out so everything gets rinsed without ANY solution being dispensed. Of course, this is a pain, and expensive, and basically I'm running my CG twice as much. Also, cats are SMALL creatures. The ratio of chemicals to a small animal I would think would be much higher. I have to say I'm seriously contemplating going to a natural litter and not using the CG anymore. If the CG had been out for 15/20 years already and no ill effects on cats had been reported, I would feel much better. I would be incredibly upset if I found out in 10 years that my cat developed liver disease or kidney failure or cancer because of higher exposure to this solution.

Am I an expert on CG's or sanisolution?... No I'm not.
Am I affiliated with Petnovations?... nope.

But I feel quite comfortable with the product and their design. And I have to assume the decision to spray solution directly onto the granules is intentional and by design. I know they put countless hours into R&D before even releasing their product and have done as much or more since then to continually improve it. And finally I sincerely doubt they would make such a decision without some confidence that it was safe for cats and people.

I can't honestly say I have the same confident feeling about the chemicals used in all those clumping litters and crystals etc.

I certainly respect that this forum is here for people to ask questions and express their opinions.
My opinion is that this question is a lot of fuss about nothing.

Just reading some previous threads and ran across this one where a handfull of owners also complain about "sticky" granules and "tracking". Notice this is back from March 2007 so this sanisolution issue has been going on for quite awhile.

Here's the link: catgenie/topic1657.html

There are many factors that are contributing to the continual residue buildup that's obviously occurring. First is that the catgenie doesn't drain 100% of the water after fill up 1 & 2 so therefore the water concentration increases between fills. It does drain completely after wash 3. Since the granules get a heafty dose in fill 3 and again at the start of the drying cycle, the sanisolution concentration continues to build in strength. There's a definate lack of a rinse at the end. I've been running my CatGenie a second time, pullilng out cartridge at start, to give the unit a good flushing and it comes out decently. This is however a huge waste of resources "not very green" so I'm still seeking an alternative solution. Several users have PM'd me regarding PetZyme and they all say they've seen success with it. I'll try it out this week. I also have 3 samples coming from a petsafe company to try out. Let's cross our fingers!

I know they put countless hours into R&D before even releasing their product and have done as much or more since then to continually improve it.

I totally agree with that. However, for me (being kind of a freak about chemicals to begin with) I'm just not comfortable with it any more and will probably go with a natural litter like World's Best or something. I don't know, I have to think some more about it.